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Ranting

If you don't like that we point out the mistakes of our upstream project, skip this category.

We concluded our previous post with the questions:

Is your head spinning already with all the bug numbers? Do you think the Release Channel version is good enough for productive use?

The saga continues, so here's an update:

The fix for Bug 1993842 was backed out from the Release Channel version, so special IMAP folders are now always shown in English again. Meanwhile the fallout from the fix is being addressed in Bug 1998456.

But the drama is going on. A further fix not to show Gmail's "All Mail" folder as "Archives" is being prepared in Bug 1999677, and the developers thought it was a good idea to force Thunderbird-specific localisation onto that folder, despite the fact that Gmail already localises its name, see Bug 1999895.

The German reader will be reminded of the film title "Denn sie wissen nicht, was sie tun" ("Rebel Without a Cause", from 1955).

All this is part of a "normal" development process of "trial and error", at least in some organisations, but trying to sell the resulting software as a "stable" release, well, ..., we leave that to your judgement.

Update 12th Dec 2025: The issue is still not resolved in Thunderbird 146, see: folder name confusion

Here you find the latest bug report.

In our previous post, we wrote about the many regressions users of the Release Channel are plagued with. Today we're focusing on the history of a particular issue, which affects all users of a localised (non-English) version of Thunderbird.

Traditionally, Thunderbird aimed at showing names for "special folders" (Inbox, Sent, Templates, Trash, Archives, etc.) the way they were shown in the mail providers web interface. That was achieved by listening to user requests in various bugs, for example Bug 1320191 on the Microsoft "Deleted" folder, or Bug 543227 on incorrect names of other IMAP folders.

In their infinite wisdom, the Thunderbird folks changed this behaviour for no good reason in Bug 1960526, so a SPAM folder called "Bulk" would be called "Junk" (later "Spam" after migrating "Junk" to "Spam" in Bug 1823084), which gave rise to Bug 1979511.

Attempting to fix Bug 1979511 led to Bug 1993842, where special IMAP folders were always shown in English. That was fixed, but now the behaviour has returned to the "infinite wisdom" change, were standard names of the special IMAP folders are used instead of the names in the web interface. This was filed as Bug 1998456.

Let's not mention that in the course of the events, some localised folders were shown with garbled/mojibake names for a while, Bug 1994890.

Is your head spinning already with all the bug numbers? Do you think the Release Channel version is good enough for productive use?

Have you ever wondered why Betterbird follows the Thunderbird ESR (Extended Support Release) channel and not the Thunderbird Release channel? The answer is easy: The Release version is riddled with regressions that slipped through the beta phase. Even Thunderbird users seem to be aware of that, as according to the latest published statistics, and despite the best effort of the Thunderbird folks to push their Release channel to users, 73% are still on ESR. They prefer stability to fresh regressions and partly implemented and non-functional new features.

Three examples from the current version 144. This is shipping with the new reworked so-called Account Hub, which is very buggy, this bug only has 22 duplicates. Next, 144.0 shipped on 14th October 2025 with a bug, causing the taskbar button of the compose window to disappear from the taskbar. This was quickly fixed with a new release 144.0.1 two days later. Last not least localisation of IMAP folders for drafts, templates, sent messages, etc. is broken. Users of localised versions see the English names.

One argument for the Release channel has been, that new features would reach users faster. While this is true in theory, the practice is different. For example, the much-touted Microsoft Exchange integration via EWS is still not feature-complete in the current release. Users are left to find out in which way their the Exchange account behaves like normal local or IMAP accounts, and which features still need to be implemented.

In Germany there is a term for this: "Bananaware", the product ripens on customers' systems.

In this post we talked about the mishaps which have been common when preparing Thunderbird ESR releases, and version 140.4.0 ESR is no different. Not PhotoShop'ed, you can see it here. The red B's mean that the build failed. Sure, the Thunderbird folks will have another go to get it going, but this is this is already the second attempt, here is the first.

UPDATE: After fixing what is called "build bustage", they got the release built, but they made three mistakes, here listed in declining order of severity:

  1. They are not using the correct changeset of the Mozilla base software. For version 140, Mozilla did another "build 2" to plug a security vulnerability.
  2. One patch was backported incorrectly.
  3. Finally, they pushed all the patches separately, hence increasing the server usage and CO2 footprint.

But who cares about correctness as long as the donation money is flowing in.

Why PayPal is a pain

- Posted in Ranting by

On 1st October 2025 we stopped accepting USD donations via PayPal. Here's why. To begin with, PayPal changes a whopping 4.89% (base 2.90% + 1.99% US surcharge) + 0.30 USD fixed fee. As an example: On 50 USD they change 2.75%, so effectively 5.5%. enter image description here And that's not where it stops. With a PayPal account in Europe we are forced to convert USD to Euros at PayPal's atrocious conversion rates. That's were they pocket another 3% of markup. So effectively, for USD donations, PayPal help themselves to 8.5% of the incoming funds.

A while ago we researched ways of transferring the USD to an account or debit card denominated in USD. For starters, our European PayPal account does't allow linking to a USD denominated bank account, they only allow you to link Euro accounts from European banks.

When trying to "push" funds into a VISA debit card, PayPay stops such transfers with dubious error messages, like you can see in the picture: "We're sorry but we were unable to approve your request to transfer $XXXX.00 USD to your card". During the transaction, we see this: enter image description here And we're not the only ones. The message varies, see this Reddit post:
"There's a problem. Right now, we are not able to complete this transaction" (from Feb. 2024)
"These can't be used for Instant Transfers: Revolut Bank UAB" (July 2024)
but the facts are the same: PayPal wants to enforce their additional fee.

UPDATE: We talked to three PayPal customer fooling agents, and these were their statements:

  • Number 1: We at PayPal did everything correctly, the credit card company declined the deposit.
  • Number 2: Change the account's main currency to USD and wait two hours, I will call you back. They never did, and their suggestion didn't work.
  • Number 3: We received a lecture that the currency in Spain was the Euro and that it was therefore simply not possible to transfer anything out except in Euros.

So two ignorants and one outright condescending.

UPDATE 2A: We filed a complaint and this was there answer:

I see you have tried to complete a fast withdrawal to your card X-xxxx several times but have been unsuccessful. However, this is not due to your PayPal account having some kind of restriction or block for this process. [...] The reason for this error could be that, since it is a fast withdrawal, in which we need an immediate response from your bank, due to not receiving a prompt response from their system, the process fails, and it cannot be completed. This is something rather common with cards issued by international online banks [...].

Then they went on to suggest converting the USD to Euros at 3% commission and transferring them out via the bank account option.

UPDATE 2B: Yet another PayPal answer saying the same thing:

Keep in mind, this does not mean there is something wrong with your card, it's simply that the system determines automatically whether a card can receive a transfer from our accounts or not, if you do not see it listed, or you see an error when trying to select the card for the withdrawal, it is due to it not being compatible with that process in PayPal. In this case, I'd recommend you use your bank account linked to PayPal so you can transfer this balance.

UPDATE 3: Answer from the so-called "international online bank":

Although PayPal allows sending money to Debit or Credit cards, [the bank] only accepts transfers [using] account details, not to the card’s 16-digit number.

So we don't have 100% certainty, but it looks like PayPal did the "right thing", however, it conveniently for them didn't match with the receiving system. Still, it doesn't excuse the mind-blowing (quoted from the Reddit post) exchange rate they apply and the fact that they only allow linking Euro accounts.

UPDATE 4: We tried to link three more different credit cards, but those were rejected right away, two of them seen here: enter image description here

We're in the process of closing PayPal altogether and setting up Revolut instead.

Note: Screenshot of a genuine PayPal e-mail (logo cropped/blurred for trademark reasons)

Overdue books… er, bugs

- Posted in Ranting by

In the 1980s, American Forces Network (AFN) Radio Berlin aired a few sketches based on the adventures of Betty Fishwish. Here is one of them:

Wednesday, 1:15 pm. I knocked on the door of Mrs. Betty Fishwish:

F: Yeah, who is it? And what do you want?
L: Open up Mrs. Fishwish, this is the library. Come out with your overdue books and no one will get hurt.
F: Overdue books? I don’ t have any overdue books, so I’m innocent.
L: I don't believe you, Mrs. Fishwish. Let me see the due dates on your books.
F: Here you go.
L: Hmm, let’s see: Due last week, due last month, due two years ago, Mrs. Fishwish!
F: Ah, I believe that’s my own.
L: They’re all overdue, Mrs. Fishwish.
F: Isn’t that my book?
L: They’re all from the library and and they’re overdue, Mrs. Fishwish.
F: Look’s like I'm guilty.
L: You certainly are. Remember, Mrs. Fishwish: When your books are due, return then to the library, so the next guy can enjoy them.

The story you have just heard is true. The names were changed to protect the innocent. Mrs. Betty Fishwish was found guilty of book-napping and is now serving a three-to-five-year sentence in the main library mopping floors.


Does this remind anyone of… overdue bugs?

Just for the information of the blog visitors.


Hello followers of the alternative Thunderbird mailing list!

Remember the list of 13 points sent in July 2024? Let's see what happened to them in TB 140 ESR:

  1. Menu on top (*) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1842493 - Open https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D183466 Quote: decided to make it possible to move the menubar inside the unified toolbar.
  2. API for custom message list columns https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1615801 - Officially postponed
  3. No Linux Movemail (*) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1802145 - Open
  4. No Linux system tray support (*) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1942125 and six friends - Open
  5. Account colours (*) Rather deficient implementation, you can now colour the server folder icon, and there is some indicator in the compose window. Nothing in the message list.
  6. Global message database - Promised for May (which year was it?) - Open
  7. Quick Filter still appearing slow, lacking feedback: Some poor solution implemented (*)

So of the 13 items, 7 are still open or the Thunderbird implementation is not sufficient.

As always, (*) means that this works (better) in Betterbird.

Instead of addressing long-standing deficiencies, the TB folks have released a new regression-bugged "Account Hub", most notable regression https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1975860 (disabled in Betterbird). This is the second re-implementation of account creation, the first reimplementation shipped in TB 78 (https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/78.0/releasenotes/). So that got re-implemented after five years, whereas many features have been missing or broken for 20 years.

Some resources are dedicated to re-writing Calendar code https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/planning/T97ab9d114e5cb10e-M065844f04535ba1cd8cdaac2, others to implementing access to MS Exchange servers via EWS. That might be ready to go in the next ESR release, TB 153, in mid-2026 just a few months before Microsoft will phase out EWS in October 2026.

Looking at the account hub and calendar implementation, one gets the impression that glossy changes are favoured over real functionality improvements.

Thanks for reading, Jörg.

Thunderbird ESR releases (we don't watch their beta or release channels) are always a little drama of trial and error. This time their first build has some linting issues (the orange ES) and shows consistent test failures on all platforms (the orange bct7). No, this hasn't been PhotoShop'ed, you can see it here.